Episode 8 Transcript | The Reluctant Fundraiser
Cathy Mann: Welcome to, It Doesn't Hurt to Ask! A podcast, where we talk about fundraising this season. We'll be talking to shift disturbers and philanthropy people who are shaking up traditional philanthropy practices. Today we're talking to Anne Gloger who's been shift disturbing for the last 20 years and is a founding director of East Scarborough Storefront and more recently the Centre for Connected Communities. We sat down to talk about Anne's journey of seeing donors as true partners. I think it's fair to say when we first met that you were resistant to fundraising.
Anne Gloger: I think that is fair to say.
Cathy Mann: Can you tell me a little bit about where that resistance came from or or how you, how you felt? Do you remember how you felt about it back then?
Anne Gloger: I'm not sure that my feelings have changed as much as my analysis because I think that, you know, so back then I only kind of have one story, one analysis of what fundraising was all about and it really put the emphasis on the the, the, the people that have kind of saving the people that don't have. And that narrative was bit antithetical to the sort of social justice lens with which we take on our work in The Storefront.
Cathy Mann: East Scarborough Storefront works in the neighborhood of Kingston Galloway Orton Park in Scarborough, Ontario, an inner suburb of Toronto. The Storefront brings together anyone and everyone who wants to help the community thrive. The Centre for Connected Communities grew out of East Scarborough Storefront and was developed in response to the calls and requests to show other communities, funders, residents and others how to do the work of the Connected Communities Approach. I asked Anne what she thought the biggest shift was for her in her thinking about philanthropy and the decade or so that we've worked together
Anne Gloger: Well. I think the idea of, of, of funders and donors and partners and not as the people with the money other outside of the work, but actually truly part of the work,
Cathy Mann: Right
Anne Gloger: There are gifts that everybody brings to social change work and there are people for whom the gifts that they bring is money. Um, and there are people for whom it is time and people for whom it is talent and strategy and all those, those other things. But honoring the people who may not have the, the sort of in person contribution, but to have the financial contributions, true partners in the work, um, was something that really shifted for me.
Cathy Mann: Would you talk about an example where you really saw donors step up and demonstrate their support of the organization?
Anne Gloger: Yeah. So, um, you, east Scarborough was a community that's a terrible tragedy in 2012 where a number of young people were shot and two were killed. And the outpouring of support, which we've seen, you know, in other communities and other tragedies since was enormous. And the, the challenge is, is sort of sort of creating an organized way in which people can use that outpouring of support, use what they have to give in ways that are meaningful to the community that was affected. So The Storefront, as a community backbone organization, was able to find ways for philanthropists to contribute without having that, oh, you know, sort of the, the, the, the victim rescuer dynamic, but the, we're in this together. How can we help kind of dynamic.
Cathy Mann: So I don't know if I've ever told you the entire story about it from my perspective. I was on vacation in Nova Scotia when I heard the news on CBC that there had been a shooting on Danzig that killed two people and injured two dozen. A friend who was also a donor to The Storefront reached out to me and asked how everyone was. As a fundraiser, I knew that if our goal was to have donors as partners in the journey, we had to let them know what was going on. It's disingenuous to just share the good news stories with our donors. I also knew that suggesting to a director who was resistant to fundraising that we reach out to donors to share information about this tragedy could be an incredibly delicate conversation. Well, I do spent a lot of time thinking about how to present that idea to you because I didn't want, because I get, even though they say this now and they found that sounds like I could've, it could have been perceived as me being incredibly crass, incredibly opportunistic. If you didn't believe that donors really cared about the work and the people. And do you recall at all what that felt like for you? For me to be saying, hey, it's time to reach out to donors and tell them you know, what's going on.
Anne Gloger: Yeah, it didn't feel good. It didn't. And I think too, the, the analysis about the community backbone organization, The Storefront and what its purpose is also shifted over that time. So it's, you know, it that the shift in thinking about philanthropy didn't happen in isolation. In much of the charitable sector the idea of philanthropy is to create strong organizations and strong organizations are critically needed. But in thinking about the, the role of philanthropy is to help us create a strong community and that it's not about a self serving ask for The Storefront. I think that the idea of how do we bring money to the community was how I managed to make peace. That because if it was bringing money to The Storefront, it felt like we were taking the attention away from the people who were focused on, on the actual work and using it as an opportunity for The Storefront as opposed to we're a conduit the money it's going to get into the community.
Cathy Mann: Yeah. But as you recall, he didn't ask for money. You don't need to go to donors and all you did was you
Anne Gloger: Right.
Cathy Mann: Told them what was going on.
Anne Gloger: That's right. That's right. And you're our fundraising consultant. So the first thing I think you're saying
Cathy Mann: Yes (laughs)
Anne Gloger: That we should be asking people for money. And when you probably said it, I don't actually remember the words of the conversation was more along the lines of your funders and donors are going to be concerned. Um, they're going to want to know what the role of The Storefront is, especially as we're developing the connected community approach and the, and the, uh, community backbone convening role. And it is our, in fact, it's our duty to keep everybody who was connected with the community informed about what's going on. And that's actually integral right. To our mandate.
Cathy Mann: Right. So, you know, really good donor relationships allow or give you the opportunity to give your donors a peek behind the curtain, right? Like they want to be part of the family, so to speak. And you're really modest about things. And when you say you played a big convening role in that incident, I, um, I think it's just worth defining that a little bit. Like within about 24 hours of the incident, you had representatives from 75 organizations onsite and you developed a community wide response to this, uh, incident.
Anne Gloger: Yes, the most difficult meeting I have ever, um, facilitated because of course, emotions were running high. Actually about about 15 of those people were residents representing various resident groups. And in the neighborhood, uh, there were five counseling organizations that wanted to step up at council and there were residents groups and we're saying, but we don't know those people. Um, and so we were able to pair a residence with counselors to go in together to introduce counselors into the neighborhood. Also, out of that came a real desire for youth, a community wide youth strategy, which eventually turned into KGO ACT, which, uh, has been, uh, it's actually just winding down a significant piece of community wide funding.
Cathy Mann: Okay.
Anne Gloger: Um, so yeah, a lot of things sparked out if they only were able to carry those things forward,
Cathy Mann: You know, being somewhat outside of it all. I mean, my perspective was that had you guys not done your piece of that, that, that convening that'd the incident would have been much more incendiary than it than it was. But my sense was that people felt heard.
Anne Gloger: I know that there was one resident who was able to get a renovation, uh, materials and labor because there was a townhouse in that complex it was supposed to be for community use, but nobody had the money to fix it up. And she brought that but didn't the connections to the organizations or the people who actually had control. And so you can see how that disconnect would, would have normally, uh, created huge timelines in, you know, the, and this was a really great opportunity for philanthropy. It was philanthropy through another channel, but people are stepping up and saying, "Hey, I can outfit this townhouse."
Cathy Mann: Wow.
Anne Gloger: And so that required connected.
Cathy Mann: So that kind of magic happens a lot of The Storefront
Anne Gloger: It does.
Cathy Mann: Yeah. From a fundraising perspective, that's really been a difficult thing to convey to donors because it's, it's not like a program that you can say, we do this thing where we bring people together and then magic happens. But magic does happen at The Storefront.
Anne Gloger: Yeah. And so I think, you know, sort of, you know, another thing that's what came out of our conversations and came under the experience with The Storefront was the need that although we work in emergence, that my definition of emergence is where momentum meets opportunity. Um, we are really responsive. We paying attention to the momentum in the community and then scanning the horizon for opportunities and connecting it, which is why magic happens because that's what we do. That is, that is the magic. But the need to define key project areas in which we are intentionally trying to make magic happen. You know, it was in 2016 I think that we realized that in order to galvanize the support, philanthropic and otherwise to the work it had, it had to be able to see it and it very difficult to see the magic and less you were part of it. And so we, we've actually spent the last few years really making a very, very visual.
Cathy Mann: Awesome. I'm glad to know that. And if you'll humor me, I would like to talk about what I saw as another turning point around the organization's view of fundraising. And that was when we worked on the case statement. What's your memory of, um, of that process and that exercise?
Anne Gloger: My memory of it is that it was a real opportunity to take what is a very complex community wide approach to social change and make it understand what are our challenge at Storefront has always been a challenge and wonderful things. People walk in the doors, they get involved and you know, people are hooked, people love being involved in what's happening at The Storefront and get it. But if you're not actually participated and it's very difficult to describe what we do. And so, um, the case statement, really it was a shared narrative. It allowed every staff to tell the same story. And of course, my biggest thing about the case statement is it led to the beautiful book, The Little Community that Could, which was a real outward facing piece that got people excited about working in a new way in communities, which is I think, really, um, a, a piece that, uh, there's the, what Storefront does, but it allowed us to share in a really accessible way.
Cathy Mann: Yeah. And that was fine. You know, I'll, I'll admit it's, um, it's a point of pride that I have my name on. I'm the author of the book, so I, yeah, I'm proud of that and I'm proud of the, uh, the material. And I will just say that I'm proud of all the words in that book. And every time I show it to somebody, they say, Oh, it looks so nice. And I think, damn, Randal the designer, "but what about the words? I want a scream".
Anne Gloger: But that's a big part of making community building visible, right. Like that. I think, you know, um, you know, I'm a words person to right. And the words are really important once you get past the hurdle of wanting to know about it. Yeah. And that's what the graphics do. The graphic say, hey, come reach me.
Cathy Mann: So shout out to Randal Boutiller from 12thirteendesign. Yeah, he's uh, he's another magician who involved with The Storefront.
Anne Gloger: He certainly is. And a has made things so much easier.
Cathy Mann: So you know, from my perspective, when we were going through that exercise in the case saying what I saw was people start to take pride in the work in a different way because everybody had this common language about what you were doing and before everybody was proud of the work that you're doing. But I think there's something about seeing it manifest in this, in this document. And it also prompted a lot of conversations and a few arguments between me and some of your staff about the balance between humility and tooting your horn.
Anne Gloger: Yes, I do remember those conversations and we still struggle with that. We still struggle with that. But I think that the, the case studies was a turning point that led us to really ask the question as a community backbone organization. We didn't even have that language.
Cathy Mann: That's right.
Anne Gloger: But as an intermediary or whatever we were calling ourselves, what is the value that we, that we add to create a wellbeing in a marginalized community? What is the value? Because everybody wanted to evaluate the work of our partners, right? And so what we're telling the story, and so the first time we ever tried to tell the story of our value was that case statement and it really, it really challenged us to think deeply. It's hard to toot your own horn if you know you aren't really clear about what value you bring to the work
Cathy Mann: About what horn you're tooting.
Anne Gloger: Right, exactly. And so actually I hadn't thought about this before, but the way you said it now, I think it was a real catalyst to us creating a theory of change, which led to the branding of the Connected Community Approach, the language of the community backbone organization, and ultimately to the creation of the Center for Connected Communities. We really understood the value of this convening, connecting, catalyzing and strategizing organization within a community. And I, I really think the case statement was really the genesis of all that.
Cathy Mann: Awesome. I'm doing that. I'm doing the victory sign and then by the mic here. So I had forgotten until you just mentioned it, but we started working together in 2009 and the term backbone organization, collective impact wasn't even coined until 2011 and I remember when you sent me that email with the Stanford Social Innovation review article and said, Cathy read this. We talk about ourselves now. I remember thinking, oh my goodness, we are something that has been defined. That was, that was pretty exciting to read the, that, that seminal article, that collective impact, it's to see ourselves in it at time. Uh, yeah, I mean that was, that was another defining moment. We certainly have had a lot of defining moments haven't we? And that was um, collective impact and the Connected Community Approach as we have come to analyze later on have different goals and, and some different methodology. But the, the core understanding that community building or social justice work is fundamentally a cross sector multiplayer multiscale um, type of initiative. And that there is this incredible need for the convening role for the organization or the person who, who holds the big picture and um, supports people to contribute in the ways that are meaningful to them. That's something that, that, that article really did was to talk about it backbone organization and we've laid acquainted community backbone organization just to differentiate that we are in place and we are about the social fabric of the neighborhood, which is quite a bit different from the collective impact approach, but there's a lot of similarity and it really led a lot of value to the work that we do and really legitimized it.
Cathy Mann: Yeah. Anyway, so we've been talking a lot about social justice and social change. What does that mean to you? Social change philanthropy. What does traditional philanthropy mean to you? Mean what are your thoughts about that?
Anne Gloger: From a social justice philanthropy point of view, finding out what people in the community want to do to strengthen that community. And that's grassroots groups and that is a nonprofit organizations, universities, urban planners, businesses, people say, yeah, I really want to take on this initiative. And we say, how can we help? We're very much an external facing organization. So when money comes into The Storefront, the idea is to support the initiatives of many people. So the, the philanthropic donation to The Storefront is in fact a catalyst for social change work by a number of people, particularly local residents. But the other philanthropic story cause the Sky-o-Swale.
Cathy Mann: Oh my goodness. I forgot about the Sky-o-Swale. There's so much cool staff at The Storefront. Cool stuff.
Anne Gloger: It's trademarked. Yes, it is. Um, so, um, we were given money by Live Green Toronto to create a bio swale. A bio swale is, I have learned is a fancy ditch that, um, uh, slows down and filter storm water so that it doesn't overwhelm either the creek beds or the, the storm water and sewage system. So the youth were all excited about this. They were trying to figure out where it was going to go and, and doing all kinds of work around it. And the Geo technical engineer showed up and said, no, you're not building a bio swell here. Uh, this, uh, building is built on fill and a underneath the fill is solid clay. So a Bioswale, it just wasn't worth it for the work. We also, simultaneous to the bio swale funding received separate funding to build a shade structure. So as the youth were really bummed out that they couldn't build this bio swale, one of them piped up and said, well, what if we put the Bio swale on top of the shade structure? I remember architect coming to me and saying, so let me tell you about how we're going to put a bio swale in the sky. And I thought he was crazy, but the bio swale on top of the shade structure and the design that the youth created costs five times more than the money that we had.
Cathy Mann: Right. Because it's because it's remarkable because no one has ever thought and putting a bio swale in the sky before.
Anne Gloger: And it was, it was an engineering feat. I mean, we got got up the engineers in on the act that they, they've kind of thought we were crazy too, but they thought it did, took it as a challenge. Right. Um, and do you remember the windstorm the other day and standing strong? Yeah, it's a, it's a, they did a beautiful, beautiful job. Um, and so this was a way of honoring the youth. Instead of saying, well, no, we don't have that much money. We're going to have to cut this down. We went out and we really went to all our donors and asked for additional money in order to fund the drape of the youth. I end the design of the youth and, and they stepped up. Um, and new new donors came in from Toronto Foundation. Um, some of the, their fund holders came forward and said, no, this is, this is really cool. We believe in this. We don't really know what it is, but we believe in it because of the process. And um, you know, the story is written on the side of the sky o swale. If you come visit, you see the whole story and all the incredible number of donors that came forward to fund it. There are photos on your website, absolutely. Photos on our website, www.thestorefront.org.
Cathy Mann: Awesome. Go and check out pictures of the sky . You know, you talked about donors coming forward and reaching out to donors. When we first started working together, you were really talking about how the approach, again, this was before there was a definition of a backbone organization or even an articulation of that that term. But you were talking about how, you know, you're changing how we work in the sector. Like it was much more, lots of people collaborated over the years, but this was very intentional. And, and um, and then when we first started working together, you also felt confident that because you were having some success changing how we worked in the sector, that you be able to have some influence on how philanthropy could also change in the sector. How are you feeling about that now?
Anne Gloger: Don't actually know how I'm feeling about that now, but I'll tell, tell you, um, sort of a couple of perspectives, you know, don't have a great conclusion. But one of the things in our work at The Storefront in making what we do more visual in some ways it's making it much more compatible with traditional philanthropy in being able to tell a story that you know, isn't all about magic and, and uh, emergence and, and all those things that I love to talk about it but talks about that. But in the context of kids playing soccer or people getting jobs.
Cathy Mann: So my language, you're taking a very complex, um, work that needed doing and creating a much simpler narrative to describe it. Okay.
Anne Gloger: Yes. So in that sense, I think that we have adapted to accommodate traditional philanthropy, um, practice. Well, the other thing that we have done is we've created the Centre for Connected Communities. The way that we work as community backbone organization, paying attention to momentum on the ground and connecting it with opportunities has met with such tremendous success and really is groundbreaking for the sector. Um, uh, the, the idea of our job is to help everybody else contribute to the neighborhood. And so the, the Centre for Connected Communities, the idea around that is, well, how can we help others create their own connected communities.
Cathy Mann: Uh, can create their own connected communities playspace or other or both or both?
Anne Gloger: Both. And she did the most things in with the connected community approach our both and.
Cathy Mann: Yeah.
Anne Gloger: Um, I'm still very committed to the idea of place. Places where people live, places very, very tangible, but it's very much front and center for people living in marginalized circumstances. Um, you know, the way the place they live support though is critically important. So yes, totally committed to place. However, the idea of the connected community approach also works at scale. So a, at the Centre for Connected Communities is, uh, working with, uh, grassroots leaders from marginalized communities across the city. Doing uh, network weaving capacity, building activities with them so that they can influence not just the old neighborhoods for the city at large.
Cathy Mann: Right.
Anne Gloger: So we're, we're working in both spaces. I find that the people who have, who are philanthropically interested in that work are interested in a different way of working, a different way of thinking. It has a broader scale. It appeals to different people, not in this wonderful position when they're talked to donors and potential donors of being able to talk about the connected community approach on the ground live in East Scarborough really successful example. And some people are drawn to that and you know, really are interested in how sport for change helps you not just get better, um, athletically, um, and enjoy play, but also connects them to civic engagement opportunities and people are really interested in, because you can see it, it's very visual. But then I also talk about it and conceptually, can you imagine a city that worked in this different way where people are connected and feel that they have influence and feel that they have agency to make change in their own communities and across the city? Is it different, a different approach to the conversation and people either gravitate to one or the other really fortunate to be able to have both conversations at once.
Cathy Mann: Really. Yeah. So now you do kind of have a more traditional narrative that you can share, although even your traditional narrative isn't traditional, right? Because while you're facilitating that work, it's your, it's still part of, there's oftentimes who are actually executing that work. Like you're doing almost everything in partnership.
Anne Gloger: Oh yeah in partnership and everything, you know, so much grassroots leadership in the community that we have a hard time keeping up with it. Right. So, um, it really is about supporting others.
Cathy Mann: And I think have a hard time keeping up with that grassroots community leadership because you have fostered it.
Anne Gloger: Yes. Um, yeah, it was, I was actually reflecting, I've got, got to do a Jane's Walk last week where we reflected on the whole history of The Storefront as we walked down the street from where Morningside Mall used to be what we first started. Uh, there's a heritage plaque there commemorating the, at The Storefront, which is very cool. It went up in 2007 and I thought at the time, hey, that's very cool. And then when I was asked to do Jane's Walk, I said, yeah, I really want to start at the heritage of plaque. And we went, where is it? And it turns out it had blown over in some wind storm sometime. And was sitting in a storage unit and in the Mall and Dip tracked it down and got put back up. So we got to start and we started to think about the starting as a one stop shop, a service delivery hub and have groundbreaking out was at the time. Um, and then um, you know, moving on and talking about all things that we have nurtured over the years that have spun off into other things. So you'll creating that foundation for creating that, that contact point for people as they explore their own community building activities I think has really been the catalyst for so much.
Cathy Mann: So Anne as you've, been talking, a question popped into my mind that I hadn't anticipated I would ask you, but do you have enough money to do all of the groundbreaking things that you want to do?
Anne Gloger: No, we definitely don't. The challenge I think for us is that the couple of challenges, one is, is that we move really quickly because we follow the momentum in the community. And so often the momentum happens before we're able to draw money to it.
Cathy Mann: You're ahead of the curve all the time and then residents are chomping at the bit to implement something and you do it without the money sometimes. And um, yeah. Okay.
Anne Gloger: Yeah, it's interesting because, um, uh, we, we, uh, recently hired a Director of Systems, Administration and Design who has taken over budgetary responsibilities from me and we talk a lot about my attitude towards money because it is do it first and get the money later instead of get the money and then, and then do it. Um, obviously only within a, fiscally reasonable a way. But the thing is is that the momentum doesn't wait. And that's what the problem problem for us is that we'd want to support all these really amazing initiatives. We have, um, currently we have an initiative which is going to change the face of Scarborough and it is a under one roof bringing skilled trades essential skills and literacy, wraparound supports and employment supports, all of whom will codesign training programs for local people based on the jobs that are actually being created in East Scarborough
Cathy Mann: So cool.
Anne Gloger: We have tremendous momentum, uh, an amazing number of people who come to the table and said that they would want to be part of this. Just get a building up and running. It's amazing. And so the whole idea of we need to get this building up and running to capture this moment because it doesn't, you know, momentum only last so long. Right. You know, we've galvanized people to this moment. Yeah. And so, you know, we are really working very hard to bring people to the table who could provide those dollars. We have one foundation who is a true believer in the way that we work in, has it, has stepped up and provided the money for us to be able to continue to build the momentum, but the, get a space, get people in and begin to think about governance structures and operation protocols. We have, has yet been able to attract money to it. And, uh, when we are seeing such incredible momentum at that scale.
Cathy Mann: Right.
Anne Gloger: That's not a skill that you can just say, okay, we'll do it with, at the money. Right?
Cathy Mann: Yeah. Yeah. So two things you've taught you, earlier you said there were a couple of issues around you have enough money. One of them is this notion of momentum just happened so quickly that it's hard to backfill the money and time to run the programs. Anything else in?
Anne Gloger: Well, the, I mean it's what we've talked about it already. It's the, I'm making the magic visual, right? You know, so when you are talking to people who have very specific ideas of what they would like to fund, the outcome of what they're interested in, I can totally say is going to happen. But the magic of the interplay of people to make it happen, it doesn't fit neatly into a logic model. And that's the other challenge that we have is the, um, the ability to make what we do look more traditional, right? Um, in order to attract, uh, people who are interested in a specific thing that they are already familiar with.
Cathy Mann: Right. So if a funder or philanthropist is listening to this podcast, I would say that if you're interested in investing in really incredible and innovative change that perhaps the most impactful thing would be to give you like a research and development budget, right? So that you can be capturing this momentum in real time and not having to wait to fill in some of this stuff after the fact.
Anne Gloger: That's um, that's, that's a very insightful comment. So over the past year and a half or three foundations from the States have had supporting fourth quadrant partners, a consulting firm to study and write about how philanthropy can support emergent organizations. Oh, they looked across two countries for organizations that were thriving in emergence. They were wanting to do five case studies. They had, I believe it was 60 responses. They did really intensive interviews, both of the organizations and with their partners and that their funders. Narrowed it down originally I think to 10 and ultimately they got down to three uh, organizations who were truly working in emergence and had been for a long time. And Storefront was one of those organizations. There's a case study of Storefront, which really speaks to, it's a beautiful, beautiful piece on how we work in emergence, extremely well written. And then that is used along with the two other case studies and four promising practices to inform how collapse is from foundations in particular can best support emergent organizations. And honestly they said almost exactly the same thing as what they didn't use the language of research and development.
Cathy Mann: Yeah.
Anne Gloger: But they did talk about funding because you know that there's going to be innovation, you know that there's one of the things that aren't yet predicted and we have certainly have funders locally who have come to the conclusion that that's the best way to fund us. And I would like to see other organizations also working in this way and and attracting those donors.
Cathy Mann: Yeah. Cause it wouldn't it be awesome if you had a pot of money that you could go to when the momentum, the emerges and you can just match it to that opportunistic pot of money that's been sitting there.
Anne Gloger: Wouldn't that be wonderful? Absolutely. Wonderful.
Cathy Mann: Put it out in the universe and see what happens. So Anne when we get together for a periodic lunches and you update me on what's going on at The Storefront and at the Centre for Connected Communities, what I invariably say every time is things change a mile a minute in both those initiatives. What's the most exciting thing or what's the thing that you want to talk about? What's coming up for you that, uh, that you want to share?
Anne Gloger: Well, I really think that the two initiatives with like speak to again in a slightly different way, one is, um, the East End Trades trading center and it's connection to a broader initiative called East Scarborough Works. Changing the economic conditions in marginalized communities is really game changing. And what we've discovered in doing this work with dozens of, of players from developers to trade unions to employment organizations, the full range of what we've really learned is that there are a lot of systems at play and there's just a tick up connected to each other. So you have a large institution that wants to build a local hiring strategy into, into it's physical expansion
Cathy Mann: Right.
Anne Gloger: And the disconnect between the intention of the institution, the ability of the developer to take on that kind of a commitment. And then the ability, even if the, if we get the community benefits agreement in the ability for that developer to then work with the trades in such a way as local hiring flows from the trades, the ability of local people to get into trades training and then the ability of the whole thing to work with an employment coalition, employment organizations who have the capacity to work together to make this happen in what is a very competitive environment and attach all that to this huge problem that we have across the country, which is literacy essential skills.
Cathy Mann: Right.
Anne Gloger: And so we've taken on this enormous piece of work to try and align the systems locally in the scope or, and I'm super excited about it because we're beginning to see change.
Cathy Mann: No, no, I just think about, you know, so when I met you guys in 2009 you'd been operating on for what a decade ago and it was, it was all place based. I think we saw the potential, but to see where you are now a decade later where you, I mean back in the day when I was working with you, you know, you were talking about creating movement even though you were trying to be a humble about it. And that's when we had all those conversations about and you can create a movement and not toot your own horn, but um, so to see how far you've come and to see the kind of like that's enormous and not.
Anne Gloger: But the other piece of the work that I want to talk about, is the Centre for Connected Communities because again, I think it really does change the way I work in marginalized communities. The idea that residents of these communities are active agents of change and that the connection between them and the organizations that work in the neighborhood, the connection between and among a social organizations and physical space and how they work and how they work with other sectors. This is all the work of the connected community approach in a Scarborough, but the, he said the central for connected communities is trying to help other communities. Look at themselves as an eco system and how do you find and strikes of connection of between and among, and I'm really excited about that. We have some really exciting projects on the horizon to work across across the city and with the city of Toronto. I really believe it's going to change the city.
Cathy Mann: Anne what about changing the country in the, you know, the continent?
Anne Gloger: Yeah, it's interesting. We would ever talk about Centre for Connected Communities. You know I talked about The Storefront going deeper and the Centre for Connected Communities going broader. Yeah. And then I would say broader across, and it sort of depends on where I am that day, whether I say the city of the province to country or the world. But honestly this deeply values driven community backbone role could really make a difference to society at large. And so whatever the scale we ended up working at, I think it's a game changer for people.
Cathy Mann: Yeah. You know, one line that I came up with when writing the book was we expect short term solutions for long standing problems. And so the work that you do, my, my observation of it is that it's not for the faint of heart. I can think of many meetings that I would attend with you guys. And partway through I think, why did I show up to this meeting? I can't believe this is going on. And by the end of it, I would be just thrilled because we hadn't worked through all of the discomfort and sometimes ranker and, but lots of times really lots of excitement. Like there are lots of, not lots, I don't wanna make it sound horrible, but you know, there were okay arguments in the middle of those meetings,
Anne Gloger: But we all love each other.
Cathy Mann: And then 100% of the time I would leave the meeting saying I should just stop listening to my negative self. Cause I know something cool is going to happen at the end of this. But it's, but it's not for the faint of heart because you really do have to be prepared to enable it to live with that discomfort, to get to these exceptional outcomes.
Anne Gloger: So the Centre for Connected Communities has created, um, 10 keys to unlocking a connected community.
Cathy Mann: Okay.
Anne Gloger: And one key is embrace the messiness.
Cathy Mann: Yeah.
Anne Gloger: It's always going to be messy and be able to see the strategies and see the issues at play within the complexity I think is a key skill that you need to work in, in this environment.
Cathy Mann: And, and I guess, you know, because I am a fundraiser, I hope that philanthropists can somehow be part of it, at least understanding that messiness if not being actively involved in it and being prepared to invest in something that may appear to be just messy for awhile.
Anne Gloger: Well, and then I meant to share a question too about are we changing the nature of philanthropy? And I think the answer is yes.
Cathy Mann: What a nice way to end this podcast.
Anne Gloger, thank you so much for this conversation as usual. It's been a delight. We didn't argue with each other during this, so it, it was pretty good. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Maybe you can come back.
Cathy Mann: Thanks so much for listening. You know, I just love the work Anne and her colleges are doing and I'd be honored to be witness to answer evolution and thinking about philanthropy over the years. If you like this and you want to hear more, be sure to head over to iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts and subscribe. And if you like this, be sure to tell your friends, have a party, invite them over to listen to. Do you have any questions, Kudos or concerns you'd like to share, check us out at itdoesn'thurttoaskpodcast.com. The great music you hear is dog days by Isaac Joe. My thanks as always to, Anne LeMesurier for making these podcasts are reality and generally being so great to work with. Let this serve as a reminder to all reluctant fundraisers out there. It doesn't hurt to ask. Cathy Mann: This podcast is produced by poodle party productions. Good girl, brandy and Cathy Mann and associates.